Going over requirement? - Guild Wars Forums

VendingMachine · Jul 17, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

If I have a weapon at req 9 what happens if my attribute for that weapon was over that, does the damage stay the same or go up?

zelgadissan · Jul 17, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Damage goes up, but it has nothing to do with your weapon, really. It's all about your own stats. I'll try to explain in a way that's not too ridiculously confusing.

Raising your weapon stat will always increase your damage. For example, if you have 12 in Swordsmanship, r9, r10, r11, and r12 (without Weakness of course) swords will do the exact same amount of damage for you. If you have a r9 sword, only putting 9 in your Swordsmanship won't be nearly as productive as 14. If you're looking for exact numbers, a customized r9 sword at 9 Swordsmanship would do 13.88-20.36 damage, where as at 14 Swordsmanship you'd be doing 21.40-31.40 damage.

If confused, you can try reading this wiki article, but it's a lot of math.

Edit: IcyFiftyFive worded this way better, scroll down and read his explanation.

Munkypoo7 · Jul 17, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I'm pretty sure it stays the same, but the percent chance of hitting on the higher end of damage increases...

For example, a Scythe, 9-41 R9
At R9 you may bit an avg of 25
But if you're lets say mastery 14 maybe you'll hit an average of 32+? but never breach the 41 maximum

This is just my speculation... idk and ill be watching this thread, i really am interested in this ^^

notskorn · Jul 17, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

It stays the same as long as you meet the requirement but you want it to be a little higher incase you get weakness.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 17, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

A higher att=more damage
Meeting the req=more damage
The difference between your att and the req=nothing.
Simplest I can make it.

Icy The Mage · Jul 17, 2009, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

I'm pretty sure it stays the same, but the percent chance of hitting on the higher end of damage increases...

For example, a Scythe, 9-41 R9
At R9 you may bit an avg of 25
But if you're lets say mastery 14 maybe you'll hit an average of 32+? but never breach the 41 maximum

This is just my speculation... idk and ill be watching this thread, i really am interested in this ^^

Quote:

It stays the same as long as you meet the requirement but you want it to be a little higher incase you get weakness.

These are both wrong.

The weapon's requirement has absolutely nothing to do with how much damage you do.
All the damage you do is based on your attribute level.

For example, if you have 14 in swordsmanship, and you swing an r13 sword and then you swing an r9 sword, they will both do the same amount of damage.

If you do not meet the attribute level though it gets to be a problem.

For example, if you have 12 in swordsmanship, if you were to wield an r13 sword, you will do very small damage.

Chthon · Jul 17, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Consider the weapon req like an "on/off" switch. If you meet it, your weapon functions normally; if you don't you get a very nasty damage penalty.

Your damage also increases with your attribute rank, but that's an independent calculation.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 17, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Just a note, if you plan to do serious amounts of damage with a weapon, your weapon mastery should be 14 anyway, so buying low req weapons is only cosmetic.

Archress Shayleigh · Jul 17, 2009, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Just a note, if you plan to do serious amounts of damage with a weapon, your weapon mastery should be 14 anyway, so buying low req weapons is only cosmetic.

Why not 13 or 15? I once ran a 16 marks ranger.

notskorn · Jul 17, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

These are both wrong.

The weapon's requirement has absolutely nothing to do with how much damage you do.
All the damage you do is based on your attribute level.

For example, if you have 14 in swordsmanship, and you swing an r13 sword and then you swing an r9 sword, they will both do the same amount of damage.

If you do not meet the attribute level though it gets to be a problem.

For example, if you have 12 in swordsmanship, if you were to wield an r13 sword, you will do very small damage.

So how exactly was my post wrong? I said pretty much the same thing as you but with less text.

kupp · Jul 17, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Say you're doing 100 dps with 14 Swordsmanship. You'll do the same 100 dps be it with a 14 req. sword or a 9 req. So in other words, if you're using high a Swordsmanship attribute, lower req is only for vanity as it will do the same amount of damage a higher req. sword would.

paddymew · Jul 17, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38

If you meet the requirement, your weapon will do that much damage.

If you have more than the requirement, your weapon will do more damage.

Higher difference between the requirement and your weapon attribute = Higher chance of critical hits.

Some of my guild members did some research on this some time ago.

zelgadissan · Jul 17, 2009, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by notskorn

So how exactly was my post wrong? I said pretty much the same thing as you but with less text.

Your post implies that as long as you meet the weapon requirement (for example an r9 sword), anywhere between 9-16 in that weapon will produce the same amount of damage. Which is completely wrong.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jul 17, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archress Shayleigh

Why not 13 or 15? I once ran a 16 marks ranger.

Because 14 is as high as you can go without sacrificing health. You being dead = less damage on the opposition(AI or human).

People generally don't run superiors unless it's a spike build(where the idea is to keep the opposition on the back foot the whole game) or if it's running an extra rune to make use of a break point (e.g. hammer wars sometimes run major strength to get +4 adrenaline on enraging charge or MM's run 16 death to get better minions).

Of course you can always use consumables to make it higher without any penalty...

Quaker · Jul 17, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

Say you're doing 100 dps with 14 Swordsmanship. You'll do the same 100 dps be it with a 14 req. sword or a 9 req. So in other words, if you're using high a Swordsmanship attribute, lower req is only for vanity as it will do the same amount of damage a higher req. sword would.

In a sense, you are correct. Under the situation you stated, the req of the sword doesn't matter. But, there could be times/builds when you want to put as much as possible into some other attribute, in which case, the lower the req on the sword, the more leeway you have.
When the game was new, a lot of players didn't understand the req thing, so lower requirement weapons were sought after because some thought they did more damage, etc. These days, req9 weapons are like diamonds - their value is mostly based upon people's perception of "worth", not any actual benefit. (Diamonds can be produced artificially by the ton, but people will still pay rediculous amounts for "real" ones.)
Require9 (and 8) weapons are simply more valuable because they are rarer, and people will pay more for them. So, for most people it's a matter of want, not a matter of need.
On the one hand, this may seem a little crazy, but what it does is, it allows newer (poorer) players to get "max" weapons early on, and then gives them something to waste their gold on later (you really can't take it with you - not even to GW2, so you may as well spend it.)

btw, this is something I always thought was lacking in GW - there should be some rare, "epic" weapons in GW that give some extra advantage (in PvE at least).

Miss Puddles · Jul 17, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Assuming you meet the requirement to wield that weapon, the main difference is going to lie within the skills you are using.
Power Shot, for example, will do more damage if you have 16 marksmanship than if you have 9. But regular bow attacks (not using a skill) will be roughly the same.

boxterduke · Jul 17, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Because 14 is as high as you can go without sacrificing health. You being dead = less damage on the opposition(AI or human).
People generally don't run superiors unless it's a spike build(where the idea is to keep the opposition on the back foot the whole game) or if it's running an extra rune to make use of a break point (e.g. hammer wars sometimes run major strength to get +4 adrenaline on enraging charge or MM's run 16 death to get better minions).
Of course you can always use consumables to make it higher without any penalty...

All my chars have superior runes in their head piece. This way I get +3 extra points for that attribute and that allows me to use more points for other attributes.
Also with a superior, I'm maxing my attribute so I can do more damage when using skills.

===

As for the weapon, as long as one is meeting the req and using normal attacks (no skills) then you are doing the same damage does not matter your attribute. However, higher attributes will benefit when using skills.

zelgadissan · Jul 17, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

As for the weapon, as long as one is meeting the req and using normal attacks (no skills) then you are doing the same damage does not matter your attribute. However, higher attributes will benefit when using skills.

It's already been explained in this thread multiple times that this is wrong. The last sentence is obviously right, but you do more damage with normal attacks with higher points in weapon mastery. It is not just about meeting the requisite with your weapon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

If you're looking for exact numbers, a customized r9 sword at 9 Swordsmanship would do 13.88-20.36 damage, where as at 14 Swordsmanship you'd be doing 21.40-31.40 damage.

If confused, you can try reading this wiki article, but it's a lot of math.

Edit: moriz to the rescue! That explains it so much simpler (and more completely) than I have been.

moriz · Jul 18, 2009, 03:40 AM // 03:40

alright, here's a basic (and hopefully accurate) description:

-your weapon skill will determine the percentage of your weapon's damage. for example, at 12 sword, you will get the full 15-22 damage from your sword (ignoring requirements for now). at 14 sword, it's closer to 17-25, though i don't remember the exact numbers. at only 9 in sword, you'll be doing around 12-19.
-if you DO NOT meet your weapon's requirement, your weapon will do 1-3 base damage, before the percentages from your weapon skill affects it. so if you have 9 in sword but using a req13 sword, you're doing ~86% of 1-3 damage, which amounts to... well, nothing.
-however, if you DO meet the weapon requirement, then it doesn't matter what that requirement is. at 14 sword, you'll do the same damage with a req9 sword as a req13 sword.
-all this means, is that unless you have a specific build that specifically requires a low sword attribute, you should always pump your sword skill to 14 and use any maxed sword.

Snograt · Jul 18, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

It is confusing - it took me a good couple of years to get my head around the idea. To be honest, it doesn't make much sense either. If a sword says "damage 15-22, requires 9 Sword mastery", then I'd expect to be doing 15-22 damage with 9 Sword mastery.

If I can go a touch Sardelac-y here, wouldn't it be nice if weapons had skill ranges that updated as your attributes changed, in the same way that skills do? Mouse-over a weapon with 9 in Sword mastery and the tool-tip says "12-19 damage" - up Swords to 12 and the tool-tip says "15-22".

Jul 17, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33	#1
VendingMachine Academy Page Join Date: Nov 2006	Going over requirement? If I have a weapon at req 9 what happens if my attribute for that weapon was over that, does the damage stay the same or go up?

Jul 17, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45	#2
zelgadissan Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2008 Guild: The Warrior Priests [WP] Profession: Me/Rt	Damage goes up, but it has nothing to do with your weapon, really. It's all about your own stats. I'll try to explain in a way that's not too ridiculously confusing. Raising your weapon stat will always increase your damage. For example, if you have 12 in Swordsmanship, r9, r10, r11, and r12 (without Weakness of course) swords will do the exact same amount of damage for you. If you have a r9 sword, only putting 9 in your Swordsmanship won't be nearly as productive as 14. If you're looking for exact numbers, a customized r9 sword at 9 Swordsmanship would do 13.88-20.36 damage, where as at 14 Swordsmanship you'd be doing 21.40-31.40 damage. If confused, you can try reading this wiki article, but it's a lot of math. Edit: IcyFiftyFive worded this way better, scroll down and read his explanation. Last edited by zelgadissan; Jul 17, 2009 at 04:16 AM // 04:16..

Jul 17, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28	#8
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	Just a note, if you plan to do serious amounts of damage with a weapon, your weapon mastery should be 14 anyway, so buying low req weapons is only cosmetic. __________________

Jul 18, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21	#20
Snograt rattus rattus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST Guild: [GURU]GW [wiki]GW2 Profession: R/	It is confusing - it took me a good couple of years to get my head around the idea. To be honest, it doesn't make much sense either. If a sword says "damage 15-22, requires 9 Sword mastery", then I'd expect to be doing 15-22 damage with 9 Sword mastery. If I can go a touch Sardelac-y here, wouldn't it be nice if weapons had skill ranges that updated as your attributes changed, in the same way that skills do? Mouse-over a weapon with 9 in Sword mastery and the tool-tip says "12-19 damage" - up Swords to 12 and the tool-tip says "15-22". __________________ Si non confectus, non reficiat

Jul 17, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47	#3
Munkypoo7 Academy Page Join Date: May 2009 Location: Miami, Florida, United States Guild: Lunatics Running the Asylum [CRZY] Profession: R/Rt	I'm pretty sure it stays the same, but the percent chance of hitting on the higher end of damage increases... For example, a Scythe, 9-41 R9 At R9 you may bit an avg of 25 But if you're lets say mastery 14 maybe you'll hit an average of 32+? but never breach the 41 maximum This is just my speculation... idk and ill be watching this thread, i really am interested in this ^^

Jul 17, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11	#4
notskorn Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: Clan Roxor Profession: W/E	It stays the same as long as you meet the requirement but you want it to be a little higher incase you get weakness.

Jul 17, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09	#5
Kerwyn Nasilan Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WHERE DO YOU THINK Profession: W/	A higher att=more damage Meeting the req=more damage The difference between your att and the req=nothing. Simplest I can make it.

Jul 17, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28	#7
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	Consider the weapon req like an "on/off" switch. If you meet it, your weapon functions normally; if you don't you get a very nasty damage penalty. Your damage also increases with your attribute rank, but that's an independent calculation.

Jul 17, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05	#11
kupp Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Shiverpeaks Guild: [KISS] Profession: W/	Say you're doing 100 dps with 14 Swordsmanship. You'll do the same 100 dps be it with a 14 req. sword or a 9 req. So in other words, if you're using high a Swordsmanship attribute, lower req is only for vanity as it will do the same amount of damage a higher req. sword would.

Jul 17, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38	#12
paddymew Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2008 Profession: D/	If you meet the requirement, your weapon will do that much damage. If you have more than the requirement, your weapon will do more damage. Higher difference between the requirement and your weapon attribute = Higher chance of critical hits. Some of my guild members did some research on this some time ago.

Jul 17, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16	#16
Miss Puddles Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: California Guild: Shiverpeaks Search And Rescue [Lost] Profession: Me/	Assuming you meet the requirement to wield that weapon, the main difference is going to lie within the skills you are using. Power Shot, for example, will do more damage if you have 16 marksmanship than if you have 9. But regular bow attacks (not using a skill) will be roughly the same.

Jul 18, 2009, 03:40 AM // 03:40	#19
moriz ??ber t??k-n??sh'??n Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Profession: R/	alright, here's a basic (and hopefully accurate) description: -your weapon skill will determine the percentage of your weapon's damage. for example, at 12 sword, you will get the full 15-22 damage from your sword (ignoring requirements for now). at 14 sword, it's closer to 17-25, though i don't remember the exact numbers. at only 9 in sword, you'll be doing around 12-19. -if you DO NOT meet your weapon's requirement, your weapon will do 1-3 base damage, before the percentages from your weapon skill affects it. so if you have 9 in sword but using a req13 sword, you're doing ~86% of 1-3 damage, which amounts to... well, nothing. -however, if you DO meet the weapon requirement, then it doesn't matter what that requirement is. at 14 sword, you'll do the same damage with a req9 sword as a req13 sword. -all this means, is that unless you have a specific build that specifically requires a low sword attribute, you should always pump your sword skill to 14 and use any maxed sword.